Is it just me or...

[Judith]

Did Chricton start using a lot of random spanish words in season four? What's up with that? Was Ben Browder learning Spanish or something?

[the_cadpig]

No...it's not just you. I noticed that as well. Kept wondering if it really meant anything in the context of the show or whether someone just got spanish happy. It popped up quite a bit in the first half of the season.

[CosmicTheorist]

Sikozu says that her brain can't tolerate translator microbes, that she must learn a language by HEARING it. We get Johnny spouting Spanish usually with Sikozu nearby. Maybe he was doing it all along, but the other Moyans wouldn't notice the difference since their translator microbes would translate his Spanish the same as they translate his English; or maybe he is doing it NOW because Sikozu CAN hear the difference.

Or maybe Ben Browder started doing it just to tease us.

;)

[Judith]

Originally posted by CosmicTheorist
Sikozu says that her brain can't tolerate translator microbes, that she must learn a language by HEARING it. We get Johnny spouting Spanish usually with Sikozu nearby. Maybe he was doing it all along, but the other Moyans wouldn't notice the difference since their translator microbes would translate his Spanish the same as they translate his English; or maybe he is doing it NOW because Sikozu CAN hear the difference.



;)

I don't know though...there are some words that don't seem to translate.."frell, hezmana, raskreeta, etc. So the translator microbes certainly have limitations. I would postulate that the translator microbes don't translate Spanish, in Chrichton's case, because it is a somewhat foreign language to him (we definately don't get any indication that he's fluent) and therefore words in Spanish may not be as firmly etched on the brain as words in English are for him. Also, when I watch the show, it seems that in most episodes we are getting them in English, rather than in English, then spit out through translator microbes (if that makes sense. The other thing is, it seems like Sikozou picked up a good grasp of English really qucikly, and that she wouldn't really need any additional help.

And how come it seems that some of the characters can speak in their native languages and choose NOT to have the translator microbes translate what they say?

[CosmicTheorist]

I always had the impression that frell was the UT's version of our televised bleeps; the Moyans swear in their own languages and the microbes substitute "frell" where appropriate. The only other time I remember the microbes specifically not translating is when D'Argo spouts "ancient" Luxan that he remembered his grandfather spouting. D'Argo specifically had denied knowing how to read or speak ancient Luxan in Revenging Angel. Maybe the microbes can't translate if the speaker doesn't know what he is saying, if the speaker is in effect speaking in tongues. D'Argo needed his microbes "upgraded" with ancient Luxan before he could understand his ship.

In "I Shrink Therefore I Am" the microbes couldn't translate when D'Argo, Aeryn, and Rygel spoke at the same time.

We really don't know very much about those microbes and how they work, do we?

;)

[Judith]

Originally posted by CosmicTheorist
I always had the impression that frell was the UT's version of our televised bleeps; the Moyans swear in their own languages and the microbes substitute "frell" where appropriate.

The reason I thought that words such as "frell" and "hezmana" are species specific...and therefore not filler provided by the microbes, is that in the first season it seems that "hezmana" and "yotz" are used primarily by Rygel, and everyone else seems to pick them up over time. Sort of like how I did an exchange student program in high school- went to Spain, and still say "joder" from time to time, when I'm pissed or when I stub my toe. :D

Other things we know about the translator microbes is that "microt" is roughly equivalent to "second", but doesn't translate for John. I think there is a scene is the first season where John says "hour" and someone else corrects him with "arn". That they knew to correct him in the first place tells me that the microbes weren't just throwing out filler words.

But we do know very little about the translator microbes and how they really work.

[Halfbreeds4ever]

I never understood how exactly the translator microbes worked(maybe because I missed the first half of season one). There are some languages it doesn't understand, but somehow english gets translated? It's just been one of those things I've come to ignore.

[GeneralBraca]

Search Google Groups for this, if you are really interested. It has been discussed gargantuan amounts in the Farscape newsgroups. Basically, there are a lot of contradictions and it is nearly impossible to come up with a simple self-consistent rulebook for how and when the microbes do their stuff.

[StarsGoBlue]

Well, they're microbes. That means they're living cells. So maybe they get overworked or tired or maxxed out, and have to take a break for a bit.

That might be when a word or such slips through. And maybe the translator microbes in one's head can't simultaneously translate several diverse languages at once?

Interesting discussion.

[Talyn]

I always got the impression that they hear each other talking in their native languages, but just somehow understand it (so John hears D'Argo speaking Luxan, understands it, but can't speak it). No conversion necessary. I just figured that when we heard foreign words it was because either a.) there weren't any direct translations for them that made sense to the listener ("drannit"), or b.) just to add character (like when D'Argo calls his ship). In reality, they don't hear them switching back and forth unless they specifically are (like when Aeryn learns English).

Lastly, I always figured the common usage of "microt" and "frell" was probably the result of all the interspecies mingling. Cycles of interacting with each other has led to common words in their vocabularies. John picked up on these common terms and started using them himself.

(shrugs) Just my thought. :)

[IY-SpaceMonkey]

I love translator microbes, they're great I like that they don't work properly and that they have problem with slang and can only translate languages that are on a similar level and that they are dependent upon the individual that they are in to a certain level. I think that covers all the anomlies and I think they make them more interesting rather than being a problem. If they worked perfect that would suck. Nothing works perfect in the real world so why should it in Sci-fi. Farscape's full of things that don't work properly, just like the real world. The Defence Shield they scavenged for example..

[ctegan]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
I would postulate that the translator microbes don't translate Spanish, in Chrichton's case, because it is a somewhat foreign language to him (we definately don't get any indication that he's fluent) and therefore words in Spanish may not be as firmly etched on the brain as words in English are for him.

Well, I don't know if this is relevant or not to the discussion, but although he's not fluent speaking Spanish, he's probably fluent understanding it (courtesy of the microbes ). In A Human Reaction he understands and translates French (among what we can assume was one of a parade of other languages brought to him during the day). I don't think Crichton's necessarily fluent in French either. So, is your suggestion that the translator microbes can only properly translate a fluent speaker of a certain language? So, Crichton can understand someone speaking fluent Italian, but if he tried to speak Italian, it would not translate correctly to the others because of his own inability to speak it naturally? If so, that's very interesting!

I love reading everyone's ideas on how translator microbes work. :)

[stellar]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
Did Chricton start using a lot of random spanish words in season four? What's up with that? Was Ben Browder learning Spanish or something?

Que?

[PauNthWorlds]

CTegan, "A Human Reaction" brings up a very interesting for the human mind. Since all that took place in John's mind, and the alien succesfully mimicked Earth and it's languages, couldn't it be then said that John knows all the languages subconsiously, or would it more accurate to say that the alien recreated the language as John heard it, so John thinks he is hearing French. If so, then he already knows the languages of Earth and would not really translater microbes, but lets remember that the language was generated from his memory. Have I confused anyone yet, I hope so I am confused myself.

[Judith]

Originally posted by stellar
Que?

Tu madre.

[stellar]

Mi nombre es Estelar, su nombre es cabeza de doo de doo.

[Judith]

Originally posted by stellar
Mi nombre es Estelar, su nombre es cabeza de doo de doo.

Chingas tu perro.

Am I gonna get in trouble for that?

[stellar]

My dog isn't for that.

[Selena]

I think it also made a difference who was writing the script/s.

[Judith]

Originally posted by Selena
I think it also made a difference who was writing the script/s.

It does, but we know that Ben Browder improvises a LOT, and also, don't TV writers usually have to work closely together to preserve continuity of style? So even though one person will write an episode, I think it's seen by a bunch of people who give input.

Not sure though.

[ctegan]

Originally posted by PauNthWorlds
CTegan, "A Human Reaction" brings up a very interesting for the human mind. Since all that took place in John's mind, and the alien succesfully mimicked Earth and it's languages, couldn't it be then said that John knows all the languages subconsiously, or would it more accurate to say that the alien recreated the language as John heard it, so John thinks he is hearing French. If so, then he already knows the languages of Earth and would not really translater microbes, but lets remember that the language was generated from his memory. Have I confused anyone yet, I hope so I am confused myself.

LOL ... yes, you'll be pleased to know I am slightly confused. ;)

That's a very interesting point though. The aliens had taken what was in John's mind and memories to recreate the world around them, so he might actually believe he's hearing French (as he's heard it before) but it's not necessarily French that's being spoken? or that, Just like babies babble sounds of many different languages as they're learning their primary language (English or Spanish or whatever), John has an inherent knowledge of Earth's languages (maybe according to his own experiences or something like that)? Am I even close? *g*

[Eric Satan]

There is no way that they hear the language being spoken or John would not have been able to impersonate a PK!

It is also possible that the transator microbes comunicate with each other (as stated in the rpg book I think) making it a possiblity that a speaker can decide not to alow the microbes to translate thus alowing the native language to be heard by others as we have seen with D'argo, Rygel, Scorpy and just about everyone else.

[talyn3]

No Se'

[Talyn]

Originally posted by Eric Satan
There is no way that they hear the language being spoken or John would not have been able to impersonate a PK!

That crossed my mind, but I figured a few of things with that:

a.) Peacekeepers probably aren't always born and bred on the same planet. Considering all the places they've effectively conquered and their hold on that section of space, not to mention how large their population probably is, it's possible that some or many of them speak different languages indigenous to where they grew up.

b.) They don't notice that type of thing. Given the multitude of species and languages they have had to endure all throughout their lives, and given their understanding of them all having been given microbes at birth, they just take for granted their ability to understand whatever the other person is saying. It doesn't click with them that the person is speaking another language because they've NEVER had to worry about it.

c.) If it merely SOUNDED like John was speaking their language, his lips wouldn't match the words. Naturally they all did on the show, but if it were reality, wouldn't they catch him by the sheer fact that his mouth looked like a badly dubbed foreign film? That is, assuming that translator microbes don't play tricks on your eyes as well.

d.) It's a TV show that is ultimately going to contradict itself. Better this than the "you should have met her mother" line in "A Perfect Murder".

In the end, I guess we'll never know. Fun to think about though. :)

[zelbinion]

A thought:

In the premiere Rygel says something to the point of, "I am surprised you were'nt injected at birth"
If most of the universe is injected at birth, that means they never truly learn a base language. The microbes just translate everything to baby babble

[stellar]

That's a good point.

[Spedoinkel]

Okay so I'm going to cover all of this.

Originally posted by CosmicTheorist

Sikozu says that her brain can't tolerate translator microbes, that she must learn a language by HEARING it. We get Johnny spouting Spanish usually with Sikozu nearby. Maybe he was doing it all along, but the other Moyans wouldn't notice the difference since their translator microbes would translate his Spanish the same as they translate his English; or maybe he is doing it NOW because Sikozu CAN hear the difference.

I had put some thought into this when it first occured (more actually when I first saw it). Sikozu can't handle translator microbes so how does she learn other languages without taking the extended learning course? Phonetics(sp?). John only spoke words and pointed at things. Some words he said weren't what he was pointing at. So Sikozu deconstructs the phonetics and uses them as a key for the language. I believe this is how the microbs work. Because if they are programed then new languages could not be translated.

This could also work with:
Orignally posted by CosmicTheorist
The only other time I remember the microbes specifically not translating is when D'Argo spouts "ancient" Luxan that he remembered his grandfather spouting. D'Argo specifically had denied knowing how to read or speak ancient Luxan in Revenging Angel. Maybe the microbes can't translate if the speaker doesn't know what he is saying, if the speaker is in effect speaking in tongues.

Speaking in tongues yes, because the phonetics would not work without a frame of reference. referencing sounds to concepts is how languages work, to my understanding. But then agian,
Originally posted by ctegan
Just like babies babble sounds of many different languages as they're learning their primary language (English or Spanish or whatever), John has an inherent knowledge of Earth's languages (maybe according to his own experiences or something like that)? Am I even close?

How can even babies learn to speak without a frame of reference. Translator microbes will not work. But given a that a frame of refernce is being given through the "intergalatic microb speach", they learn this and can comunicate, given the standard learning period. And the thing about John being able to understand languages from earth he doesn't know, remember that he has heard these languages before, and the phonetics theory works. Or it could be that the language in Human Reaction is made from a anaylsis of all the subtitled foreign films he has seen.

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
The reason I thought that words such as "frell" and "hezmana" are species specific...and therefore not filler provided by the microbes

It can also be that these are not species specific but untranslatable alien concepts. We have no definate understanding of what they mean so we don't hear a translation. Consider of earth languages. There are concepts that don't translate clearly. e.g. Eskimos have a lot of words for fish but no word for hello. There are many words that we do not grok. :D

[Judith]

Originally posted by Spedoinkel



It can also be that these are not species specific but untranslatable alien concepts. We have no definate understanding of what they mean so we don't hear a translation. Consider of earth languages. There are concepts that don't translate clearly. e.g. Eskimos have a lot of words for fish but no word for hello. There are many words that we do not grok. :D

Actually,

Spoiler space for Meltdown

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I think we're given pretty good context that "Frell" means...what we think it means. In Meltdown, when John and Aeryn are jumping each other, Aeryn says "Frell", and John says "Oh, yeah", and Aeryn says, "No, I mean bad Frell".

So we're given a hint that Frell means...to have intercourse with, and is also just a general expletive, just the way we use the four letter word.

[stellar]

Are you serious?:hi:

[Judith]

Originally posted by stellar
Are you serious?:hi:

Quien?

[padmeskywalker]

Good point, but that doesn't explain "Terra Firma" I'm assuming that title is 'Spanish' correct me, if I'm wrong. Ben didn't give it that title did he???

[stellar]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
Quien?

Usted. (Sarcasmo).

[Judith]

Originally posted by padmeskywalker
Good point, but that doesn't explain "Terra Firma" I'm assuming that title is 'Spanish' correct me, if I'm wrong. Ben didn't give it that title did he???

I think it might be a saying that's considered to be common knowledge. I hadn't heard it before, but the other day I was watching some other show (might have been the West Wing) and they referred to earth as "Terra Firma".

Anyone know if "Terra Firma" is Spanish or Latin?

[Judith]

Originally posted by stellar
Usted. (Sarcasmo).

Dude, I can never tell when you're being sarcastic and when you're not!

:D

[stellar]

That's half the fun! :aok:

[zelbinion]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
I think it might be a saying that's considered to be common knowledge. I hadn't heard it before, but the other day I was watching some other show (might have been the West Wing) and they referred to earth as "Terra Firma".

Anyone know if "Terra Firma" is Spanish or Latin?

Terra is Latin, Firma I believe is also Latin but I can not think of the true definitio.

Too much medical crap floating around in za head.......all that latin based dren

[Spedoinkel]

Terra Firma is another name for earth. Or more commonly terra means earth and firma company.

To quote Babel fish
Italian= earth company
German= terra company
French= Firma will Terra (I don't think it will translate from french)
Portegueses= land firms
Russian= land the firm
Spanish= Terra company/signature...?

Babel fish does not have latin but you get the picture. I'm pretty sure it is latin though. I've always known it to mean earth or hard ground. It just another one of those things that you are suprised not many people know.

[zelbinion]

Terra, means ground. Earth has been added to that definition over the years. To Terra Form, is to form ground on a large scale, but does not imply earth. Latin as you know is the basis of most western languages but each language tends to twist the meaning slightly. So by a certain language Terra could imply earth but in its truest since it implies ground

[Spedoinkel]

So there. :lizard:

[CosmicTheorist]

"Terra firma" is definitely Latin.

It translates as "solid earth, solid ground, or dry land."


;)

[soccerscaper]

I took Latin for 4 years!!!! It's been so long ago, I've forgotten most of it, but the basis helped me a lot with vocabulary when I was in school.

[padmeskywalker]

hey nice pic soccerscaper, which epi is it from and where did you find it? I havn't found a good pic yet. :(

[justanotherFSlvr]

Here's my understanding of how Translator Microbes probably work:

Language, as we know, puts thoughts into words, and therefore, each time we utter a word we first have to "translate" the concept into a word on some level (as automatic as that process may be). That's what happens also with people who speak more than one language, even if fluently--to speak, first a language has to be decided upon, then a translation occurs, then out comes the word.

I think what the microbes have is the ability to work at the level of thought concept, before a word is even attached to the thought. It would make sense that the microbes communicate with each other (and that both speaker and listener must have microbes for the translations to take place), as the speaker's microbes would then broadcast the speaker's concept to other microbes, to be translated into the listener's language by their microbes. The listener then undertands the speaker as if the listener already knew the speaker's language, able to translate on the fly for themselves.

If the speaker consciously wants their native language to be heard, the microbes are aware of this thought, too, and so broadcast the native language, not the concept.

Why does frell come out "frell" instead of the word we all know it to mean? Because it's part of the fun of Farscape. Characters can say the "F" word blatantly on a PG program and we can all laugh, because to those who care about such things, it's just a nonsense word!

(Edited to correct a spellin' error!)

[justanotherFSlvr]

Translator Microbes revisited:

I forgot to address the problem my theory poses when it comes to JC's ability to impersonate a PK. I think what is going on here is one of those "suspension of disbelief" things. I don't know how the translator microbes would be able to mask the foreign language, and I think this is just one of those things one comes up against in writing.

Farscape is very good at continuity, but with the true function of the microbes being officially unexplained, I think it was decided to let this little problem slip on by.
Just my opinion, of course!

(And it doesn't deminish my appreciation of FS by one bit!)

[Judith]

Originally posted by justanotherFSlvr


I think what the microbes have is the ability to work at the level of thought concept, before a word is even attached to the thought. It would make sense that the microbes communicate with each other (and that both speaker and listener must have microbes for the translations to take place), as the speaker's microbes would then broadcast the speaker's concept to other microbes, to be translated into the listener's language by their microbes. The listener then undertands the speaker as if the listener already knew the speaker's language, able to translate on the fly for themselves.


But wouldn't the need for the microbes to communicate make it impossible for any of them to understand Sikozou, since she can't take translator microbes?

[Judith]

Originally posted by justanotherFSlvr



Why does frell come out "frell" instead of the word we all know it to mean? Because it's part of the fun of Farscape. Characters can say the "F" word blatantly on a PG program and we can all laugh, because to those who care about such things, it's just a nonsense word!


You know, I hate that people DO care about that. I believe that no words are either inherently good or bad. They're just words. First of all...the context is important...is the use of a word necessary and believable? Second of all...we don't live in a sugar-coated society, so lets not not sugar-coat the language of our art!

This isn't a commentary on Farscape, as they and other shows have little say in what words they can or can't use. It's a complaint about censors and society in general.

[zelbinion]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
But wouldn't the need for the microbes to communicate make it impossible for any of them to understand Sikozou, since she can't take translator microbes?

Also, in Self Inflicted Wounds, Our crew understood the aliens before they were injected

[Judith]

Originally posted by zelbinion
Also, in Self Inflicted Wounds, Our crew understood the aliens before they were injected

Yeah...oy vey...I couldn't remember the title.

[B Sharp]

I don't think we're all that far away from translator microbes...
Non penso che siamo tutti quello lontano assente dai microbi del
traduttore...
Eu não penso que nós somos todos os isso distante ausente dos
micróbios do tradutor...
Je ne pense pas que nous sommes tous cela loin parti des microbes de traducteur...
Ik denk niet wij alles zijn wat ver vanaf vertalersmicroben...
Ich denke nicht, daß wir alle das sind, das von den
Übersetzermikroben... weit weg ist
Я не думаю мы все то далеко отсутствующее от микробов переводчика...

but even with them, things don't always make complete sense...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zhaan: Si soy así que necesitado y así que valorado y así que sabio entonces usted honrará mis palabras. Usted me obedecerá. Por el tiempo más largo temí fallecimiento físico porque mi esencia espiritual era sospechada. Pero ahora sé que soy digno. Ahora sé que las transgresiones han derretido de mi alma. Ahora sé que satisfaré a mi diosa y que seré aceptado a su pecho.
D'Argo sensible, Chiana exuberante, Rygel sabio, Aeryn altruista, Crichton inocente. Mis niños, mis profesores, mis amors, allí no son ninguna culpabilidad, allí no son ninguna culpa, sólo qué se significa para ser. Crezca con sus errores y sepa eso si el rescate paciente le encuentra.

Juan: Espera para la rueda.
Zhaan: Gracias Juan Crichton.

[justanotherFSlvr]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
But wouldn't the need for the microbes to communicate make it impossible for any of them to understand Sikozou, since she can't take translator microbes?

More suspension of disbelief? ;)

You're right, I had completely forgotten about that.

[Spedoinkel]

Anyone remember the big problem with I, ET?

[Talyn]

Originally posted by Spedoinkel
Anyone remember the big problem with I, ET?

The inhabitants didn't have translator microbes, yet they were able to understand John. Then again, that was the least of the problems with that episode. I had a hard time believing there was a planet only that far into the Uncharted Territories which hadn't been visited by any other species before.

BTW, Gir rocks.

[Lindsay White]

There was a large and vocal group on the Dom Board who dubbed themselves the "Babing Girls," which I think means "drooling" over Ben. Something we can all understand, huh? Maybe it was an acknowledgement of their devotion...